Issue 20

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Interview with Marc and Joan Hunter

Marc and Joan Hunter are two phenomenal coaches who know a thing or two about running. Prior to their time with Tinman Elite, they accumulated an impressive list of accolades in coaching Loudon Valley High School to numerous state championships, records, and back-to-back national team championships. They’ve coached Tinman Elite for 3 years now, growing and developing the team towards their goal of competing on the national and world stages of professional distance running. Today they’ve joined The Hammer to discuss the team’s preparation and readiness for the upcoming Olympic Trials.

Let’s start back in the fall. When you were planning out this Olympic year, what were your main goals for the team? Have things been going the way you envisioned?

Joan: My primary goal is always to get athletes to their most important race of the year (in our case, the trials) healthy, confident, and as fit and race-ready as possible.  I'd say that our veteran athletes are all running at a higher level than they have in past years- our training has been mostly uninterrupted this year by illness and injury, mileage has been consistently higher than ever before, and enthusiasm and confidence is high.  As for our newbies, all are healthy right now going into the trials, some have had PRs and two enjoyed and learned from the experience of running for Team USA in cross country this March.  I'm still learning how to best work with our new ones to get them where they need to be, but overall am really happy with how it's going.

There are some differences in the team’s training this year compared to what they’ve done in the past. Could you talk a bit about the major changes you’ve implemented and the thought process in making those decisions? How has the team handled these changes in training?

Joan: The main differences this year have been 1) a commitment to incorporating lactate testing with Double Threshold consistently and for much of the year. We started doing some Double T last year but didn't carry it as far into the season as we have done this year, or do it as frequently as this year. We did one Double T session per week this spring, and then another single session that usually included some threshold work and faster work as well. 2) We switched to a 14 day training cycle that we used from fall until early spring.  I really like a 14 day training cycle for both my tracksters and marathoners as it allows you some flexibility to move things around and still check all the boxes, and has more recovery options built in. 3) We switched to a 7 day cycle this spring, which is the first time I've used that since I took over coaching the team due to the injury rates we had. The 7 day cycle is easier to manage when they are racing, but I do think some of my newer athletes don't recover as well with it, so I need to figure that out. 4) I also reduced the long run for the track athletes. We used to go up to 1:50 or so, now I keep it at 90-95 mins or less for some. Definitely not noticing any loss of fitness without the longer long run.

After doing double threshold sessions and lactate testing for a while now, what are your thoughts on these type of workouts and how they've impacted the team? Was there anything that surprised you? How long did it take for the team to adjust to this type of training?

Joan: Most of my athletes are strength based runners, so I was pretty sure that they would respond well to more work at threshold pace, assuming they stay healthy. One thing that is important with Double T is that the total volume the athlete runs is important. I had one exercise physiologist tell me that the main reason it works is that mileage is high. Athletes are able to run higher mileage because they aren't crushing killer workouts- if they are truly running threshold effort, they recover quickly. This has proven to be true for most of my runners. I do have a couple who haven't responded as well and I don't think I have figured out the formula for them yet. Their mileage is on the lower end and I am thinking that they just might not be ready to do even reduced volume Double T yet. As for the workouts themselves, they are kind of boring, to be honest. But I think some of the athletes like the repeatability of the workouts. And they see how their fitness has grown, which doesn't hurt!  Another thing I learned as we did metabolic testing with many on the team is that lactate levels at threshold vary tremendously from athlete to athlete.  I have one on the team who needs to keep his lactate under 1.5 mmol, and another who can be as high as 3.1 mmol. Big difference. Much of what you read about lactate levels at threshold seems to imply that keeping things around 3 mmol is good enough, but that isn't always the case. Best to do an actual test and find out! Also, different lactate meters read differently so make sure if you are going to test your athletes you are using the same brand meter that they were tested with. And testing from earlobe to finger varies as well.

Marc: To be honest, we are still in the testing phase with Double T. It seems like about a 3rd of the team had an almost immediate positive impact, and we see that more in the race performances. We are still evaluating others to see if this will be a consistent part of their training block going forward. More importantly, we have not had metabolic testing done on all our athletes, or did not do the testing on some when they were the most fit, so we may not have the correct threshold paces or lactate levels nailed down. Because of how the marathon race schedule aligns with our training, our marathoners have not done much Double T work so we are excited to push the envelope a bit more with them in the early part of their next marathon build before we get to big single workouts. As a whole, the team has a very positive outlook on threshold training. It took awhile for our athletes to adjust because few, if any, ever did two workouts in a day, plus a Double T day is always a huge mileage day. Arguably, the most important part of a Double T session is what you do the next two days. We make sure the following day is EASY and SHORT! Every member of TME has figured that out and their recovery day is, indeed, very easy.

With the team tackling longer sessions and higher mileage, how do you assess their recovery to make sure they are adapting correctly to the training loads? Do you use any metrics, or are there more intangible things you look for?

Joan: I use the COROS training hub to check HRV and recovery for the runners, and look at the trends. If we are lactate testing that day, and someone is struggling with higher than usual levels (or even really low levels while feeling bad) I make a note of that and slow them down or cut the workout short. Technology is a nice tool, but using my eyeballs and having a relationship with the athletes where they are honest with me is  more important. I never want an athlete to be afraid to tell me how they are doing, and we work together to modify training if they aren't recovering Still have some work to do in this area, especially with my newbies as I get to know them better as athletes.

As a coach, what are you most focused on over the next few weeks in making sure your athletes are ready to compete to the best of their abilities at the trials?

Joan: The main thing is to stay focused on what we have been doing and not do crazy desperate things in hopes of making marginal gains between now and the trials! We want to fine tune our training with a little more race specific work and workouts that touch on areas that need improvement like the ability to shift gears and adjust to pace changes. Getting used to the heat by some afternoon sessions is important too, since you never know what you are gonna get, weatherwise, in Eugene. The next couple weeks we will sharpen up and reduce volume a bit, but nothing too extreme.

Marc: As many veteran coaches will say at this time in the year, "The hay is in the barn", which translated means, "You have done the work, there is not much to gain from here forward, so don't screw things up!" I don't agree with this statement. Because we have done so much threshold work during our buildup phase, there is still room for a  training stimulus gain from a speed/anaerobic perspective. Also, staying healthy now is paramount. We have had so much sickness on the team in the past that this is really our biggest worry. Our athletes continue to focus on things that keep their immune system strong.

In seeing Drew grow and develop over the course of his career, what do you think has made the biggest difference for him this year in staying healthy and being ready to compete at the trials?

Joan: Drew has had longstanding health issues ever since he got his first case of COVID in 2020 and/or vaccine related issues (he had a severe reaction to the booster shot). He had what we think was “long COVID” in 2022 that lasted for almost 6 months, and another round of COVID led to similar issues again that lasted into early fall of 2023. Long story short, he had a chronic cough, breathing problems, severe cramping in his back and abdomen and he could not train at a high level at all - it would take days to recover from a workout he could have easily handled as a high school sophomore! His immune system was weak and he would get respiratory every 2-4 weeks. The result really looked like severe overtraining. I tried to tweak his training enough so that he could race some shorter races last year, and he ran a couple of decent 1500s and managed to make the US 1500 final last year, but he was certainly not at his best. Anyway, last fall, he started feeling better and was able to train more. He started managing workouts that he could not do for the last couple years, and his mileage was the highest it’s ever been. His cough became less severe and he was able to recover from workouts very quickly. He has had the most consistent training this year that he has had since high school or maybe his first or second pro year, I’d have to look back. I would also say that becoming a father has helped Drew tremendously. He is a GREAT dad! Being a parent really puts things in perspective. At the end of a rough day, you can forget about running and enjoy that little person at home who couldn’t care less about your running career!

Marc: The biggest change for Drew has been staying healthy. He has been consistently injury free since 2020, however his continued battle with COVID, long COVID and what I call the "COVID fog" have hampered both his ability to train, to recover from training, to race, and to recover from racing. It seemed like overnight his immune system finally recovered! There was an almost immediate change in all aspects of his training and racing. He is a different athlete right now and it happened at the right time! Also, being a husband and a father has given him a new perspective on bad days, and the stress that goes with poor performances and low energy. It is impossible to have a 24-hour long bad day when you come home to two people that love you unconditionally!

Where have the biggest areas of growth been for TME over the time you’ve been with them?

Joan: Hmmm, I'd say that most of the athletes have learned to stay focused on the controllables (the process of training and the little things that support the training) and to let go of the things they can't control. We've all learned over the last couple years that stressing about the outcome leads to poor racing and the loss of enjoyment in the sport. Doesn't mean any of us get it right all the time- we all want to be successful, as measured by outcomes, but we KNOW you can't fixate on the outcome. This helps keep anxiety a bit lower! It's been so much more fun this year, and people who are having fun with it usually find some success, whether it's faster times or just learning skills that will help them get faster times eventually.

What do you think the biggest challenge will be at the trials for those racing? How do you think they are prepared to handle this challenge?

Marc: The biggest challenge for our athletes will be in believing that they belong. If you have imposter syndrome going into the trials, you should probably get back on a plane to Colorado! We have two sets of athletes attending the trials; We have athletes that have a good chance at making the final or getting on the podium, and others that will be experiencing their first championship trial of this type. The focus for the former group is to race smart, stay as controlled and relaxed as possible, execute the race plan and when the race gets hot have complete confidence that everyone else is hurting as well, to remember that they have done the work to be in this position, and to be brave. The latter group of athletes need to control their emotions and absorb the pressure, not be afraid to take chances, enjoy the experience and get ready to shock the world! It is very important for this group to learn from, not only the race itself but, the whole Olympic Trials experience.

Next up on The Hammer

Our next issue of The Hammer will feature insight from the athletes competing at the Olympic Trials. We’ll get their perspective on training over the past few months and discuss their goals heading into competition. You won’t want to miss it!

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